Ok, so we go ahead and hire this new guy who has specific skills we are looking at.
First off, he accepts our offer even though he has another offer waiting for him. Fair enough. Compare, and select whats better, financially and professionally. I say, go with us, good choice!
Second, I look to give some reeally creative freedom to this person based on his past performance and track record. He sounds independently creative and can extrapolate on given ideas.
Third, not only do I do good on his salary requirements, I do one better, and thrown in a year-end Diwali bonus (so-called, but actually at the end of 12 months).
However, now, the weekend before he’s supposed to join my company, I get this email …
(his reply was in response to our welcome email, not an independent email letting his future employer know of his decisions.)
Subject: Re: Welcome to Mindpillar!
Hi, Thanks but am no longer interested in the
offer. The offer came too late and I wouldn’t like to
be restricted to VB.NET or CF only.Thanks all the same.
This wasn’t an offer. And offer is something he can deliberate on.
He agreed on this and was supposed to join us on Monday 10th April. Thats not an offer. It’s a confirmation.
And I get to hear this after I had already lined up a choice of PocketPC, TabletPC and Blackberry/Smartphone design projects based on his existing skills and given the fact that he’s a self-starter.
Listen buddy, if you are reading this, next time around, give me (or any future employers)
a) A Little more advance notice. (no, friday evening emails, for monday morning information don’t cut it)
b) You can wish your luck will last forever, so acting un-professionally works, right? Wrong. There is going to be a day, when you need more moolah, more responsibilities (it’s a part of growing up) and more benefits … and it might be the best person in the world to give it to you is someone you didn’t show professional courtesy.
c) They have respected and recognized your skills, don’t belittle their positive judgement of you with such cheap, thought-less actions.
Sigh.
9 Apr 2006 at 8:47 am
For a change, a post of yours that I found informative *and* insightful :)
The problem though is the lack of professionalism on the Indian worker end. Its still a maturing market, people are slowly getting used to it.
Now there is a nuance there….this very moment I have a job offer earned on campus, that I had to accept (or reject and be ineligible for any other placement on campus anyway), and that starts in a couple of months. And I may well not join them. So
what is the more professional thing to do?
a) Join them, quit after a month or two – they spend effort/$ in training me and bringing me in, and then lose me.
b) Let them know I can’t join despite my “agreeing” to join. Could only do so when I *know* I aint joining, which could be 2 days before the join date ;)
c) Join them, work with them and throw away a few years worth of work/research.
So there are indeed shades of grey in certain cases. Of course, the company in question (top ecommerce firm) did make one mistake – in the interview when asked if there was something I could work in *my area*, they couldn’t really give me a good answer. If you want to hire the best people, and retain them, thats the very least you have to be able to give them – work in the area that they’re interested in.
Which is why google is doing pretty decently on retention/attrition.
9 Apr 2006 at 1:05 pm
Listen buddy, if you are reading this
I am ;-)
Quite often, people in this city in this industry do no understand “getting an offer -> making a choice -> if accepting then you *are* joining”. They see it as “getting an offer -> bargain time -> post bargain say yes to say you like the deal -> go join”. Notice that accepting an offer an joining are two different steps.
Welcome back home should I say?
10 Apr 2006 at 1:51 am
No, not “welcome back” yet. Might be in a few weeks, shall we say!
Also, I now understand. Accepting the offer does NOT seem to equal agreeing to work.
Agreeing to work also equals “keep hunting”
10 Apr 2006 at 3:48 pm
This is the same problem that we had faced in the US 5 years ago(dot com boom). This is the outsourcing boom in Blore. It will die out in a year or two. If not, then I will be forced to outsource to Cuba!!
12 Apr 2006 at 4:21 pm
hi Vinit
The comic project will be one year old on 17th. There’s a bit of comment overcrowding as you call it :-) but not the kind you usually see
13 Apr 2006 at 12:14 pm
Hey skeletoninyourcloset,
I agree with the scenario you laid out … however, the important difference …
a) This person had gone through multiple interviews with us.
b) I even sent him a sample program with some new requirements and he worked on it for 2 days and sent back some source-code. So he actually put in time and effort above and beyond the interview.
(this was the main reason I was impressed with him)
c) Throughout the interview process, he made comments that pointed to the fact that our development platforms (Pocket PC, Tablet PC, VB.Net, C#.net, visual studio 2005) were exactly what he was looking for.
Throughout the interview process, I heard comments like “I am interested in your ideas and projects” and “you guys have what I want to work on”
So I would ask him to
a) NOT join me, stating the reasons.
b) JOIN me, then get his offer and let me know … but NOT give excuses like “offer came too late” and “wouldn’t like to be restricted to VB and CF” … the offer came, and was accepted over the phone. Also, there was a restriction based on applications, that he had tried out and worked with.
c) It isn’t an “offer” once you accept it. An “offer” is when you say “will think about it”
— — —
I was out on a business trip and didn’t see your comment in the moderation section till today. Sorry for the delay in letting it through.
14 Apr 2006 at 2:45 pm
Fair enough.
What it does look like to me is a waste of commitment…he put in a good amount of effort to pursue this opening, only to throw it all away. And to throw it all away in a very unprofessional fashion.
The least you can do in such a situation is give your to be employer a call and explain in depth the reasons for your inability to join.
The consequences of a lack of professionalism are simple. When things get tough, and you need to increase the level of quality of effort, you’ll find that lack of professionalism a barrier you bump into.
14 Apr 2006 at 2:46 pm
btw, just curious … CF? ColdFusion? No other expansion of the acronym strikes me, unless he typoed C#.
14 Apr 2006 at 9:14 pm
Just spotted this and thought you might like to take a look…
http://blogs.msdn.com/jobsblog/archive/2006/04/13/576069.aspx
15 Apr 2006 at 10:48 pm
“btw, just curious … CF? ColdFusion? No other expansion of the acronym strikes me, unless he typoed C#”
Ah that was .NET Compact Framework.
Win32 programmer here :P
17 Apr 2006 at 9:10 am
CF = Compact Framework.
I’m usually better than this at explaining all technical jargon. Must have been carried away in the sentiment of the post.
So, skeletoninyourcloset? Got a blog I can read?
20 Apr 2006 at 9:38 pm
Heya VB,
Sorry for the delay in replying ;)
Yeah you normally are just fine, but its easy to google and find out.
Nope, no blog…for now! Will let you know if I do.
7 Jun 2006 at 9:35 am
http://rgyani.blogspot.com/2006/06/complaint-against-me.html
15 Jun 2006 at 1:48 am
Vinit, believe me you have done yourself and your company a big favor by not hiring this guy. I have worked with Ravi Gyani before and he’s not a pleasant guy to have in your team. Further his code and design is the most terrible I have ever come across. The only good thing is that he is able to do things at a super fast pace, but the output is really crappy quality. It was quite a relief for us when he left our team, we’re still fixing things after a year that he had totally messed up.
27 Jun 2006 at 3:16 pm
By the RG
http://rgyani.blogspot.com/2006/06/complaint-against-me.html
Do Read, and pray tell me, would you join a company in which the head promises you he would have to kick out 2 people to accomodate you and he would have to scale down your salary cause he hired three people instead of one when you rejected the offer initially.
It seems to be funny tht Rg ur still stepping the voice for VB,ahh some of the major problems in IT is lack of professionalism.
In my opinion VB showed it !
will kick out 2 emp for RG,lol
Go on VB ,scratch some nuts and get the bolts to fix them,rather thn making a funnier contro-
Also If @RG,i wont join ur so called Company,
12 Jul 2007 at 12:38 am
hi guys,
I dont understand why u guys aruguing on silly topic, every human has his own destiny and his own judgement, and we cannot change that so we have to accept it and work promtly and professionaly thats it nothing more. we indians ar re usable technocrats we should think more on developing our own software language or some things bigger not small like this, updating a techonology for a learner will not take much time, but to develop one ?
– thanks